New York City Mosque, More American Politics...

[aussiemcgr]

Ok, I wanted to see what people on this forum have to say about this. First off, please no hate speeches, that is not the intension of this topic.

For those of you who do not live in the US and do not hear anything about American Politics (lucky you), there is an argument between a New York-Based Muslim Group and a bunch of very loud and angry people about whether or not the Muslim Group should be allowed to build a Mosque a few blocks from Ground Zero (I can't remember exactly how far). The general consensus from the angry people is that it is a "protected site" and Muslim should not be allow to worship near it.

My personal opinion is that there is nothing wrong with Muslims building a Mosque there. It has been 7 years since the WTCs fell, and people still fail to see the difference between a religious terrorist group and the rest of the people in that religion. There was a Mosque inside the WTCs, and there is already a Mosque within a mile and a half of Ground Zero, and over 11 Mosques in NYC already. Also, the Constitution gives the right of Freedom of Religion, so politically, the Mosque should be allowed. People are still seeing every Muslim as a terrorist, and that is disgraceful. Throughout the country, several Mosques have been vandalized and some other religious groups are declaring this year's 9/11 anniversary to be "Burn the Koran" day. All of that is getting an understandably angry response from the more radical religious Muslims, and shit is starting to get tense again. Now, the Mosque in question was actually proposed and approved about a year ago and no one cared. But the general idea is that since Politics Season is starting to rev up, people have noticed it and are going crazy.

The argument that every Muslim is a terrorist is just plain stupid and ignorant. That would be the same as saying: "Well, the KKK is a right-winged terrorist organization, so every right-winged person MUST be a terrorist." Is that true? Absolutely not.

What are everyone else's thoughts?


FYI, I am not a Muslim, I am an atheist. Despite not being religious, I have no problem with people practicing their religion provided it is practiced the way it was intended; peacefully. I don't know of any religion that encourages hate. The only religious nuts I have issues with are the Radical Religious People.

[Dave]

I recently read a fantastic article which pretty much sums up how stupid this debate is (yes, it's satirical):

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/20...und-zero-mosque

[aussiemcgr]

That is an awesome article.

[Angela Definis]

I just read it its nice thanks for sharing..

[zpcs]

I was instructed in Christianity ... so my two cents worth here ...
Generally ...,
As CHRIST put it ... Whenever two or more are congregated (gathered) in My Name a church is formed.
Therefore when the two or more are no longer gathered ... the church ceases until such time as whenever two or more are gathered in My Name. The two or more didn't take the time to build any earthly or worldly form of a building other than the gathering of GOD willing people where-ever (where-ever is: in the open, in a cave, under a tree, on the road, in a brothel, one's dwelling, in an Inn, by a rock, next to or in a stream, the list goes on and is long but finite).
Seems pretty straight forward, however, for some odd reason people seem to believe that a building is needed - ah the vanity (see: Ecclesiates in the Holy Bible).
I'm not going to pretend to have knowledge and understanding in anything of the Quran (Koran) or the workings of Islam but I have read of Abram (Abraham), Sarai (Sarah) and Hagar (the Egyptian handmaid of Sarai). It would seem to me that GOD is common here. (What man knows the thinking of GOD, save those thoughts which GOD imparts to a man of GOD's choice and in GOD's own time and pleasure)

The FALLEN ONE sits upon the throne of the World, CHRIST has the Earth as HIS footstool upon which the World has been developed. You cannot serve both, GOD and Mammon.

I have no right(s) to take away, injure, oppress (or like-in-kind(s)) in any measure any others faith, belief and/or practices to which they themselves are accustomed. I trust in GOD that any has as much respect for mine.

Let it be as correctly conscionable as it should be and not as unconscionable as political correctness would have it.

[aussiemcgr]

Let it be as correctly conscionable as it should be and not as unconscionable as political correctness would have it.

Here is an interesting thought: Isn't "political correctness", which would fully allow any religious building to be built in the US (ignoring the fact that it is a Community Center instead of a Religious Building for the time being), just a generalized way to get people to act correctly conscionable?

I mean, "political correctness" is a term used when people are talking about the widely believed appropriate and non-derogatory term or stereotype of group of people. It would seem, if I understood correctly, you are saying the "political correctness" says the opposite, while the definition of it is: "a term which denotes language, ideas, policies, and behavior seen as seeking to minimize social and institutional offense in occupational, gender, racial, cultural, sexual orientation, disability, and age-related contexts."

I'm not a religious person by any means, but isn't that the same attitude that religion attempts to teach?

[zpcs]

Here is an interesting thought: Isn't "political correctness", which would fully allow any religious building to be built in the US (ignoring the fact that it is a Community Center instead of a Religious Building for the time being), just a generalized way to get people to act correctly conscionable?

I mean, "political correctness" is a term used when people are talking about the widely believed appropriate and non-derogatory term or stereotype of group of people. It would seem, if I understood correctly, you are saying the "political correctness" says the opposite, while the definition of it is: "a term which denotes language, ideas, policies, and behavior seen as seeking to minimize social and institutional offense in occupational, gender, racial, cultural, sexual orientation, disability, and age-related contexts."

Here's an author clarified term usage definition
political correctness: an attempt to minimize the occurance in/of/by/for/throughout thought(s) (for this topic: personal freedom in the explorative avenue of the many diversities of/in/by/for/throughout the multitude(s) in/of/by/for/throughout choices) of favorable reasonably rationalized conditioned non-reactionary behaviour to an absolutism in direction of favorable reasonably rationalized conditioned reactionary behaviour. (interplay the/all "in/of/by/for/throughout, of/in/by/for/throughout" phrasing to achieve definitive political correctness)

... but isn't that the same attitude that religion attempts to teach?

That's a good question, does it?
I have a faith. Religion is man-made. Some would have you hear the things you want to hear - not the things you must hear.

[IamShipon1988]

I am a Muslim-American who also lives in New York City. To be honest, seeing how people are reacting to the situation of building a religious center few blocks away from the World Trade Center is really over the top. Why is it such a big issue? I'm sure when other religions conquered different nations and built their prayer temples/churches, they saw no harm in it. In fact, in this case it's just Muslims building the mosque, not the terrorist themselves. If it somehow gets to a point where the construction of the mosque is banned by the state/city, then they will be violating the amendments that grant freedom to its citizens. Just as you have said, there are other extremist religious groups that do harm, why is it that they are still permitting the construction of their temples? Why just the Muslims?

Now I don't live in Manhattan, so I don't really know how many mosques there are, however, I really don't find a point in having one every four blocks or so. It's a waste of time and money which can be used in helping build a better understanding of the religion or helping kids from starvation in other nations (of all religion). After all, we all are humans. If humans don't stand up for other humans, then how will we survive?

Oh also, I introduced my self as a Muslim-American because that is the religion I choose to follow as it made sense in terms of its teachings. However, I do question the religion and often disagree with some parts. I am not 100% on it and I don't think I ever will be with any religion. I also don't believe in atheism as since as I don't believe sear coincidence created the first molecule or cell.

[aussiemcgr]

Why is it such a big issue? I'm sure when other religions conquered different nations and built their prayer temples/churches, they saw no harm in it. In fact, in this case it's just Muslims building the mosque, not the terrorist themselves. If it somehow gets to a point where the construction of the mosque is banned by the state/city, then they will be violating the amendments that grant freedom to its citizens. Just as you have said, there are other extremist religious groups that do harm, why is it that they are still permitting the construction of their temples? Why just the Muslims?

The issue is the same thing that caused all the nations in the world to hate America during Bush's term. Ignorance. Shockingly enough, it is actually that simple. The ignorance in this country is unbelievable. Things like saying all Muslims are terrorists and saying a social policy is the equivalent of turning entirely Socialist (might I also add that, in theory, Socialism isn't a completely bad concept) are some of the more ramped ignorance that you can see EVERY DAY in people in America.

The reason for the ignorance? Lack of proper education, hysteria produced from radically bias News Outlets, and the stubbornness of how people think. If people are more educated on this issues at hand, they will have a better understanding of the issue, and thus be able to make opinions based on their actual understanding instead of how they have been persuaded to think. Of course, that would require non-bias education, which would violate Reason #3 of my Reasons for Ignorance. Sort of a chicken and an egg situation.

Now, I'm not saying all American are ignorant, because they are not. The reason we hear about all this ignorance is because those who are ignorant are also the loudest. As "God" said on Futurama: "When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all." That is simply because those doing things wrong are often louder than those who are doing things right (ignoring the bias idea of right and wrong). That was loosely explained, but I think everyone can understand what I'm trying to say.

[Iyah]

Hi,
After I read your post I really found one great idea to solve my problem.
Keep this up!

[zpcs]

The reason for the ignorance? Lack of proper education

Every American has been snatched up in chasing or experiencing (maybe both) the American dream, why there are even foreign nationals desiring (legally or illegally) the experience of the American dream.
Americans continue in their slumber by choice (free will advocacy) and rather than rudely awakening them (deprivation of right(s)) let them sleep and dream until they naturally wake or are awakened by the dream turned into a nightmare ... IMO: some like a horrorrush and will attempt to remain in the nightmare dream fighting back against consciousness.
Federally Occupied America currently is an Admiralty-Maritime Jurisdiction with a democratic form of government. America is not the constitutional Civil Jurisdiction with a republican form of government as it once was prior to the year 1861.
The Public Fool ...oops!... School System has it's roots in the domestication through education of the American Indian(s) (what a tradgedy!).

[thiscap]

The reason for the ignorance? Lack of proper education, hysteria produced from radically bias News Outlets, and the stubbornness of how people think. If people are more educated on this issues at hand, they will have a better understanding of the issue, and thus be able to make opinions based on their actual understanding instead of how they have been persuaded to think. Of course, that would require non-bias education, which would violate Reason #3 of my Reasons for Ignorance. Sort of a chicken and an egg situation.

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[logo32design]

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