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MrTouz
QUOTE(DJPazze @ Aug 29 2008, 01:25 AM) *
laugh.gif Ok my friend... It was your CHOICE to like men instead of women. Wasn't it? I mean, Nobody forced you to be gay! It's something you wanted to be.

I don't wanna hurt your feelings so I'll be nice to you. Just because you are GAY laugh.gif


ok now this is bad tongue.gif

What i don't understand is why most people that actually are homosexual or like the idea of it.. or do not complain about it... ask lets say 'us' (there is no you and me and you and us) to change what we are.
You guys ask us to change our point of views, ask us to agree with what you guys do but as stated above... you guys decided to become what you became. I mean, you guys change and we have to follow as well ? is this not a little bit unfair ?

Straight is what people are, homosexuals are what people became, its not a valid reason for what people are, to accept what homosexuals became.

Basically, i don't want to change because you did. Nor accept what you became, nor change my point of view or complain about it.

We have different opinions about the subject its a waste of time of posting here. or we should all go to a chat room and discuss about this (its been 20 minutes that everybody is here but has not said anything)
Jetteh22
QUOTE
What i don't understand is why most people that actually are homosexual or like the idea of it.. or do not complain about it... ask lets say 'us' (there is no you and me and you and us) to change what we are.
You guys ask us to change our point of views, ask us to agree with what you guys do but as stated above... you guys decided to become what you became. I mean, you guys change and we have to follow as well ? is this not a little bit unfair ?


No. You're not getting it. Ask ANY gay person if they CHOSE to be gay. See what they say.

QUOTE
Straight is what people are, homosexuals are what people became, its not a valid reason for what people are, to accept what homosexuals became.


Bullshit. What about the KINGS in medieval days who had "male servents" that they had sex with? They were married, had queens but ALOT of kings had sex with males. It's a natural thing that happened back then.

QUOTE
Basically, i don't want to change because you did. Nor accept what you became, nor change my point of view or complain about it.


I don't want to change you. I don't want to change myself. I don't give two shits what your point of view is. What I care about is the fact that YOU guys are trying to take rights away from "us" because we just HAPPEN to like the same sex.

QUOTE
We have different opinions about the subject its a waste of time of posting here. or we should all go to a chat room and discuss about this (its been 20 minutes that everybody is here but has not said anything)


Discussion over.


And you both misunderstood my post.
Let me bold it for you.

Being gay isn't something that is forced upon somebody, it isn't something that somebody really CHOOSES..

I didn't wake up and say "OH IM GAY!"
No..
I just never had feelings for women.
NEVER.
MrTouz
QUOTE
But MrTouz.. I could give two shits about my relations. How would you like it if people were telling you that since you are french you shouldn't be allowed to be married. You shouldn't be allowed to adopt kids. JUST because you are french.


Lets not discuss about something that will never happen, its not about me as a French but about you as a Gay.
QUOTE
Religion should NOT be a factor in deciding rights for ANYBODY. We have the right to practice ANY religion we want to. We also have the right to practice NO religion.


it shouldn't i agree with you... religion sucks for me.. you probably know my opinions (from other tppics) Religion is doing only bad and not goods as its suppose to be.

BUT i am sorry to tell you that RELIGION IS LEADING THIS WORLD. sadly it is, its just the way it is and you will have to deal about it, since its leading the world than you have to understand that most if not all religions do not allow homosexuality than you got a serious problem.

If you want to know my age, i am 19 years old, younger but trust me... i have 'experience' in life. (not that i like to say it) but lets say that what i type is not just a typical 19 yo response.
QUOTE
Sigh. Maybe it's just where I live that nobody cares who's gay and who's not. Everybody loves everybody for their personality, not their sexuality.


You must live in San Fransisco then... (no i see it on your profile)
Jetteh22
I meant younger as in like 13 or 14 years old.

DJPazze
QUOTE(Jetteh22 @ Aug 29 2008, 01:30 AM) *
Okay, you're right.
DJPazze I owe you an apology. I don't want you to die. I don't want anyone to die.

But MrTouz.. I could give two shits about my relations. How would you like it if people were telling you that since you are french you shouldn't be allowed to be married. You shouldn't be allowed to adopt kids. JUST because you are french.

And FYI you two.. I know a few people who have gay parents and, well.. They turned out just fine. They're also straight too.

So.. I really don't know what you guys are talking about.

Sure if my boyfriend and I were to adopt.. I would get a girl for the sake of the boy growing up. It would be a hard life. "Oh I bet your dad fucks you," or something if we got a boy.. Yes, that would be hard.

It just -really- pissed me off when DJPazze said "oh if you give them the right to marraige they'll start wanting other rights"... Wtf is that?

This country is BASED on the belief that EVERY MAN SHOULD BE CREATED EQUAL.. Correct?

Well... I'm a human. Every gay person is human. Every black person is human. Every chinese person is human. Mexicans are human. Transexuals are human...

Religion should NOT be a factor in deciding rights for ANYBODY. We have the right to practice ANY religion we want to. We also have the right to practice NO religion.

By saying GAY people shouldn't have rights is like saying that anybody who does NOT believe in god should NOT be allowed to be married or have children.

It's a fucked up idea. It's a fucked up country. It's a fucked up world.

DJPazze, you're fighting a fight that you won't win. Sure.. Gay marraige may not be legal this year. May not be legal next year. It may not be legal for 20 years... But I can -promise- you it will be legal one day. Why fight something that is going to happen anyways?

I consider myself a NICE human being. I don't go around judging people based on their beliefs. I don't judge people based on their looks. I don't judge people based on their sexuality. I don't murder people. I don't rape people. I don't steal. I try my hardest not to lie...

What makes you such a better person that you should get more rights than me?
No. It wasn't my CHOICE. Like I said. I never woke up one day and told myself "Hmm I think from this day forth I will like MEN!" Just like you never woke up and said "Hmm I think I'll like WOMEN!!!" No.. It just happened. When you begin puberty you start to experience feelings towards other people. Your feelings went towards women. Mine went towards men.

And as in choice, if you mean.. COULD I be straight? No.
I COULD have sex with a women. I -have- kissed women at parties. I have felt another girls tits... I could marry a women if i really wanted to... But would I enjoy any of that? No. Because my feelings are built towards men.

And please don't be nice to me because I'm "GAY"... I'm not nice to you because you're straight. Hell, I'm not nice to you at all.

Every time you post something you just piss me off.

How old are you? The majority of the people on these forums, I believe, are -young- and they don't have enough experience in life to realize what anything means yet.

I'm 20 years old. I've watched my 5 older brothers go through the OH I HATE GAYS stage and now I see them as VERY generous people who would care less if their best friend turned out gay (or their brother)...

Sigh. Maybe it's just where I live that nobody cares who's gay and who's not. Everybody loves everybody for their personality, not their sexuality.



Don't even use Nationalities as examples.

We are not talking about whether or not we like Gay people. I have had friends who were/are gay, they were cool just like any other people... BUT.... like I said before, this is not about liking gay people. We as the Majority care about kids and future generations who will live in this planet. Marrying another person of the same gender is NOT RIGHT! THat is insane.

I think you didn't get my point. I have NOTHING against gay people, yes they are free to choose who they want to satisfy their sexual needs with. but Marriage + adopting kids= NO!!!


Oh yeah, i forgot to post my age... I am 19. wink.gif
MrTouz
Jetteh you don't understand what i mean by became what you became by changing.
What you are is different... you can't deny ? i mean... since creation everybody was straight... you can't say no about this fact, well you are not straight you are gay, meaning you are different.

Now you are asking us, to change our point of views or allow you to have rights BTW i correct you :

QUOTE
YOU guys are trying to take rights away from "us"


you don't have any as a gay couple or homosexual couple... you want rights, but don't have any. lets not confuse our selves.
Again why would you want me to change my point of views, or allow you something while you changed, you became what you became... not that i have something about it.

SO now i am a Zoophile (from the french word) people that have sex with animals. Can i marry a dog ? i mean.. i am not different than you.. i want to marry my horse (he has a big cock and i like it) so i want to marry him ! i want my horse once he dies to give me his insurance money tongue.gif

QUOTE
Bullshit. What about the KINGS in medieval days who had "male servents" that they had sex with? They were married, had queens but ALOT of kings had sex with males. It's a natural thing that happened back then.


its natural... even the Greeks liked to see guys penises... but again no King asked to marry a guy. Since as you might know... King is the representation of GOD in earth so as a King follows religion he can't have a gay dude for marriage. So basically what you say means nothing and is not acceptable in our conversation ! tongue.gif



EDIT :

DJpazze i have to agree with the above post.
Jetteh22
As I said.
Discussion over.
We're way off topic now.

You have your beliefs:
Gay people should not be allowed to be married or adopt kids.

I have mine:
They should be allowed to be both.

Done
MrTouz
now which one of the two (obama mccain) is or is not for the above ?
Jetteh22
Neither.
I'm not voting. I don't like either one.
DJPazze
I am voting for my grandpa McCain. cool.gif

Don't ask why...
aussiemcgr
Really wanted the last word on this topic, but since Jetteh wants it to stop, I'll respect that.

I'm pro-Obama. I can really see him making a difference for the United States. And I cant see anything good coming from McCain.
DJPazze
QUOTE(aussiemcgr @ Aug 29 2008, 02:17 AM) *
Really wanted the last word on this topic, but since Jetteh wants it to stop, I'll respect that.

I'm pro-Obama. I can really see him making a difference for the United States. And I cant see anything good coming from McCain.


Why do you say so? Just because he is black and looks different than the previous presidents you think he is gonna make a difference? lol

I respect your descision, if you want to vote for Obama, do it. wink.gif
Jetteh22
That's just ignorant DJPazze
DJPazze
QUOTE(Jetteh22 @ Aug 29 2008, 02:28 AM) *
That's just ignorant DJPazze


What's ignorant? Me telling the truth or Me telling lies? wink.gif
MrTouz
a big LOL for DJPazze.

No i hope no one goes to far with 'making a difference / Hope' never know what comes up, i believe that Oboma can make a difference, he looks like a guy that can, but he unfortunately does not look like a president, i mean a president should be strong, heavy, and Obama is not, i mean, he does ot look like he can have a country of over 300000 million people under his arm.

Plus i hate her kid already (the mess she made on that stage tongue.gif) Hhahahaha no joking... was not funny.

Anyways, when is the vote ? when is the end?
aussiemcgr
QUOTE(MrTouz @ Aug 29 2008, 11:43 AM) *
No i hope no one goes to far with 'making a difference / Hope' never know what comes up, i believe that Oboma can make a difference, he looks like a guy that can, but he unfortunately does not look like a president, i mean a president should be strong, heavy, and Obama is not, i mean, he does ot look like he can have a country of over 300000 million people under his arm.


Now we really have to look at our perceptive of a president. My opinion of a president is someone who looks intellectual and looks like he has a desire for change. EVERY single president has been a rich, white male. He may not look like what you would consider a president, but we havent ever seen what a president would look like if he wasnt a rich, white male. And as it is, even if a president had a presidential look (which McCain doesnt have either), looks can be deceiving.
Elite
QUOTE
"IF the president/government allows gay marraige, Gay people will demand other rights as well"

HOLY SHIT! Somebody wanting RIGHTS!? WTF!? Next thing you know them damn faggot-asses will get the right to vote! HOW DARE THEM!?


so where does it say anywhere that adopting childeren is a right? or for that matter marriage, in my personal opinion that should be considered a privelege, anyone else agree?

_Edit: posted other stuff but i see we changed the subject.


But both candidates are horrible and they both dont care what you want. but ill vote for McCain because he knows what he is talking about while Barrack will have to force me out Iraq by himself if he wants to back out troops. because once we leave, they will follow, and they WILL invade they WILL. and not only will i laugh at the people being killed from these people but i will also feel the need to fight for them AGAIN. but why should i fight for them for they took me out of iraq, and caused the problem that will come,

but forget the war tell me what barrack promises you incompetent people.
DJPazze
QUOTE(Elite @ Aug 29 2008, 09:02 PM) *
so where does it say anywhere that adopting childeren is a right? or for that matter marriage, in my personal opinion that should be considered a privelege, anyone else agree?


Privilege or right, Whatever you wanna call it. Gay people would affect a child's mental health. wink.gif
MrTouz
agreed tongue.gif
DJPazze
How's it going Mr. T ? laugh.gif

Touz
aussiemcgr
QUOTE(DJPazze @ Aug 29 2008, 09:10 PM) *
Privilege or right, Whatever you wanna call it. Gay people would affect a child's mental health. wink.gif


Eh, I dont want to get into this again. Just because someone is gay means they will be bad parents? Straight parents are usually bad parents. For instance, your parents were probably bad parents because they obviously never taught you anything about equality and, by the sounds of your posts, they also never taught tolerance and how to be respectful. What evidence shows that gay people would effect a child's mental health? If anything, a child would come out of that as a BETTER person because they would have a good understanding of how it feels to be ridiculed.
You say that gay people would effect a child's mental health because you obviously have a problem with gay people and cant imagine yourself being the child of gay people. The child that gets risen by gay parents would obviously have a stronger mental health because of the stuff they would endure while their mental outlook is developing.
This is all using the condition that the parents (regardless of sex) are good and responsible parents. Not saying that every gay person would make a good parent, but I am saying that not every gay person would make a bad parent.

For once, give me an educated answer to the following questions:

1) What defines whether a parent is a good parent or a bad parent, is it their sexual preferences?

2) What makes you think that a gay person would be a bad parent? Could it be that you are just simply a bigot?

3) Would a child develop into a better overall person because they now understand the situations of other people?

4) Who has the biggest negative impact on a child's health, the quality of their parents or the sexual preferences of the parent?

5) Which would make a better parent? A neglectful and irresponsible straight parent or a responsible gay parent who is extremely involved in their child's life and development.

Actually think these answers out before you choose. Maybe you will learn how prejudice you are.
Elite
QUOTE
1) What defines whether a parent is a good parent or a bad parent, is it their sexual preferences?


it's their actions toward the child, how they raise it, pay attention to the child, give the child a good education, and show the child respect for respect in return, show personal interest with the child to make a good friendship and make sure the child will never be a bad child.

QUOTE
2) What makes you think that a gay person would be a bad parent? Could it be that you are just simply a bigot?


Because what i see now is that "gay" people don't want a child because they want to love it, and do everything else i wrote above, its because they think it is THEIR "right"

QUOTE
3) Would a child develop into a better overall person because they now understand the situations of other people?


Rephrase.

QUOTE
4) Who has the biggest negative impact on a child's health, the quality of their parents or the sexual preferences of the parent?


Neither, its what the parents "drill" into the child's head, how to behave, who to listen to, what to do, stuff that becomes instinct to the child. The biggest negative impact on a child that has homosexual parents is the people they go to school with, now i know what your saying kids are just kids, but your child doesn't know that he or she will be hurt mentally by the kids at school, not only that but the child might get hurt physically by bullies just because their parents are gay. Like i said before think of the child first before your "RIGHTS"

QUOTE
5) Which would make a better parent? A neglectful and irresponsible straight parent or a responsible gay parent who is extremely involved in their child's life and development.


Well it seems the way you worded that is just to get the answer you wanted, what if you asked it like this:
WHICH WOULD MAKE A BETTER PARENT? AN EXTREMELY INVOLVED STRAIGHT PARENT IN THEIR CHILD'S LIFE AND DEVELOPMENT, OR A NEGLECTFUL AND IRRESPONSIBLE GAY PERSON?

My point is that you will get neglectful and irresponsible gay parents, no question about it. it is just majority of the people that come from straight families aren't neglected they are fine people, even if they are neglected they turn out to be the smartest people of all. you cannot justify the whole gay community because you think that because they want children means that they will be good parents.
aussiemcgr
QUOTE(Elite @ Aug 30 2008, 11:17 AM) *
it's their actions toward the child, how they raise it, pay attention to the child, give the child a good education, and show the child respect for respect in return, show personal interest with the child to make a good friendship and make sure the child will never be a bad child.


And cant you admit that a gay parent has the ability to do all of that for their child?

QUOTE
Because what i see now is that "gay" people don't want a child because they want to love it, and do everything else i wrote above, its because they think it is THEIR "right"


That isnt always true. For some it is, but for other it isnt. I do think that when a person adopts a child then they should undergo an intense test to prove they are capable of being responsible. This goes for straight and gay parents. Their are some gay people who realize that they can never have a child of their own but they still want one, so they choose to adopt. This isnt a protest or anything, it is because they generally want a child. Like I said, this isnt the case for all gay people. We have to look at the rights of those who actually want a child, and not the ones who want a child so someone will look at their rights.

QUOTE
Rephrase.


It was hard to phrase into a question, so let me try again. Will a child grow up having a better understanding of different opinions and be more tolerant of them if they understand what it would be like to not be normal? I think a child would come away richer and better for experiencing a tough childhood. And keep in mind that if the parents are good parents, then they will help their child get through any rough patches while growing up.

QUOTE
Neither, its what the parents "drill" into the child's head, how to behave, who to listen to, what to do, stuff that becomes instinct to the child. The biggest negative impact on a child that has homosexual parents is the people they go to school with, now i know what your saying kids are just kids, but your child doesn't know that he or she will be hurt mentally by the kids at school, not only that but the child might get hurt physically by bullies just because their parents are gay. Like i said before think of the child first before your "RIGHTS"


O wait a sec. I'm not asking the biggest negative impact on a child with homosexual parents, I'm asking for the biggest negative impact on a child in general.

QUOTE
Well it seems the way you worded that is just to get the answer you wanted, what if you asked it like this:
WHICH WOULD MAKE A BETTER PARENT? AN EXTREMELY INVOLVED STRAIGHT PARENT IN THEIR CHILD'S LIFE AND DEVELOPMENT, OR A NEGLECTFUL AND IRRESPONSIBLE GAY PERSON?

My point is that you will get neglectful and irresponsible gay parents, no question about it. it is just majority of the people that come from straight families aren't neglected they are fine people, even if they are neglected they turn out to be the smartest people of all. you cannot justify the whole gay community because you think that because they want children means that they will be good parents.


Ok, see with this you are assuming that a gay person would be a neglectful and irresponsible parent and that all straight parents will be extremely involved in their children. You are the one looking for a specific answer. Consider all the bad straight parents. Let me highly a few facts from a scientific study about STRAIGHT parents.

1. Eighty percent of parents believe that neither alcohol nor marijuana is usually available at teen gatherings, but 50 percent of their kids say they attend parties where alcohol, drugs or both are available.

2. Only 12 percent of parents see illegal substances as their teen's greatest concern. But twice as many teens ( 27 percent ) say drugs are a major worry.

3. 80 Percent of parents believe alcohol and marijuana are not usually found at teen parties

4. 50 Percent of kids say they attend parties where alcohol and drugs or both are available

5. 98 Percent of parents say they are normally present during parties they allow their teens to have at home

6. 33 Percent of kids say parents are rarely or never present at parties they attend

This shows that straight parents can be irresponsible, possibly more so than gay parents. There is no proof that a gay parent would be a bad parent. You just think they would be because you dont understand the gay community.

This topic isnt as much about all gay people having the right to have kids, but rather those responsible gay parents that want a child, and should have to right to have one.
MrTouz
I don't think GAY parents are bad, parents are just parents, some are good and some are bad. This has noting to do with sex.

BUT : as in any families every child needs both sides... Father / Mother, each one of the parents provide something different, i know my father raised me like a man, i stopped kissing him when i was 5 (he said your a man now ! no kissing !) he always made me strong and thought me guys stuff, we talk about sex (a lot) and cars... and fun we had last night... and what ever dudes talk about, on the other hand my mom was always nice to me... when ever i did something wrong, she never screamed never said its bad or wrong... my father did that tongue.gif

What i am trying to say is both parents bring something and you CAN NOT deny the fact that a child will need both sides. And mostly a mother while the child is younger... its obvious the child will want what he came from... for GAY parents .. how they gonna provide that ? for LESBIANS it can be easier...But both ways... you always need something that 2 parents from the same sex can't provide.

Its either one... or the other.

Now an other fact that you can't deny is other KIDS. What i think everyone is saying about homosexual parents will affect a child's health is by being homosexuals them selves not by what they actually provide.

Now you can't deny that other kids will :

laugh at kid (mostly because of he difference)
not talk to the kid (because kids will ask their parents.. most parents will not want their kids to talk to a hs's child)

so :

the kid will be affected psychologically

Again, its not the parents (even tho they will not provide all, some families do not have a father / mather... it happens) but mostlikely the outside world.

What i think people should do at first.. is teach others that being gay is not bad... and than once they get that part... hs's will be able to have kids without affecting their health.

Now you can't deny, that what's up there is false... its the way it is, people are dumb... people don't want to understand... but oh well...
DJPazze
hmmm! wacko.gif

I never said GAY people are bad or that they would be bad parents!

GAY people would/will affect a child's mental health

wink.gif

Think about it, do you think it'll be normal for a child to say "Hey, I have two dads" or "Hey, I have two momms" ? It might be normal to him but not to the majority of US who have a dad and a mom.

People are bad and they will much likely reject him/her and make his/her life misserable. Is that the future Gay people really want to offer a child? smile.gif

im in a hurry, g2g.
eNVoXia
QUOTE(aussiemcgr @ Aug 1 2008, 08:17 PM) *
SEAN223 FOR PRESIDENT!
You've got my vote.


I second that. Sean made some really good points. I think that people assume because his name is Barack Hussein Obama that he must be Muslim. But common sense (which I have noticed many are lacking, not to point any fingers) would remind us that we don't chose our own birth names and our names don't make us who we are. In this case, stereotypes do nothing but blind people to the possible realities.

Personally I would vote Obama, if I were to actually vote. I'm not into politics, I don't keep up enough and to blindly vote would not be fair to the candidates or this country. Why would I vote Obama considering that I don't keep up on politics you may ask.. because he is black. Shallow it may seem, and in all honesty it is. But since I know nothing of the intelligence involved, I would have to vote soley on what I see. Once again, this is why I am not voting.
aussiemcgr
QUOTE(DJPazze @ Aug 30 2008, 09:51 PM) *
hmmm! wacko.gif

I never said GAY people are bad or that they would be bad parents!

GAY people would/will affect a child's mental health

wink.gif

Think about it, do you think it'll be normal for a child to say "Hey, I have two dads" or "Hey, I have two momms" ? It might be normal to him but not to the majority of US who have a dad and a mom.

People are bad and they will much likely reject him/her and make his/her life misserable. Is that the future Gay people really want to offer a child? smile.gif

im in a hurry, g2g.


You have no proof that gay people will affect a child's mental health. With the help of his/her parents (whether gay or not), they will be able to adjust to it. I went through some ridicule and shit growing up (alot of people make some stupid jokes on Australians...) and I have learned that everyone that does that shit are just a bunch of idiots. I've adjusted and ignored ever shitty ass comment that someone has said to me, and I think I've come out of it all a stronger person because I went through all of it. Obviously I cant compare the two situations (kids are assholes and I will say that they will say some shit) but if the child, with the help of their parents, will be able to get over it and find some tolerant people to be friends with. Every child is on either the side that gets ridiculed or the side that does the ridiculing. The side that gets ridiculed will be the people who come away from it richer because of it. And the side that does the ridiculing is the side that, eventually, will realize how pathetic they really are. There is no denying that children are assholes, but if the parents are responsible and deeply involved in their child's life, then the child will come out happy in the end.
Jetteh22
Aussiemcgr - Thank you for the support. At least there are a couple of people here on zymic who are not complete and utter idiots.

There is NO proof whatsoever that a child with gay parents mental health will be affected at all. Sure, the child will have a hard time but I can honestly say that the child with gay parents would not get as much shit as a gay child would.

If gay people can take all the shit (myself) and turn out just fine mentally (I don't have tendencies to kill people, I still talk to my parents regularly, I love my family and they love me) why do you just assume that a child with gay parents will turn out crazy or have mental problems?

It's just an ignorant thing to say.

I've already said that we were off topic and should stop talking about it but obviously some people can't stop talking about it. My inbox is flooded with replies to this topic. I'm subscribed to it so I can see peoples opinions on the matter of the presidents, NOT their gay-hating rants.

DJPazze you only have about 100 posts.. I'd say at least 1/8th of them are on this forum debating with me and others about whether gay people should have "rights" (because god knows you don't want us 'demanding' them).

Try doing something more productive with your time and helping others.
MrTouz
QUOTE
I second that. Sean made some really good points. I think that people assume because his name is Barack Hussein Obama that he must be Muslim. But common sense (which I have noticed many are lacking, not to point any fingers) would remind us that we don't chose our own birth names and our names don't make us who we are. In this case, stereotypes do nothing but blind people to the possible realities.


I think i am the only one that made the difference with his name, so for not pointing your fingers FUCK YOU. Sorry do use bad words but you are pushing me to.
Now because you are that smart... you probably read the rest of my post, saying that since his father is Muslim is MUST be one... no you don't chose to be one or not, but technically you ARE. My father and mother are Christians... I AM, tho i do not pray, and do not follow religion anymore... i still am.
So before 'not pointing any fingers' read. and if you want to point fingers... than find your self a mirror.

QUOTE
Aussiemcgr - Thank you for the support. At least there are a couple of people here on zymic who are not complete and utter idiots.


Sorry to tell you that jetteh but what you said is totally dumb... if because i have a different point of view than you than i am an idiot.. than 80 percent of the worlds population is ? don't you think you are the actual idiot here by just saying that ?

QUOTE
There is NO proof whatsoever that a child with gay parents mental health will be affected at all. Sure, the child will have a hard time but I can honestly say that the child with gay parents would not get as much shit as a gay child would.

If gay people can take all the shit (myself) and turn out just fine mentally (I don't have tendencies to kill people, I still talk to my parents regularly, I love my family and they love me) why do you just assume that a child with gay parents will turn out crazy or have mental problems?


Oh come one ! give us a break already with your bullshit. No seriously, a kid young as he is while being 5 to 10 does NOT understand that kind of stuff. You are not going to tell me that he will be able to make the difference, you can.. because you are probably 20, because you are not a moron, but most of the 5 to 10 year olds would definitely laugh at you if you told you had 2 dads.

No there is no way to tell... but you know how being young was... if you were just a BIT different than you heard shit all day and insults and fights... don't try to go over there - i use to be young & different and I suffered like hell and NO one can tell me that 8 year olds understand a crap about no joking stuff... they are morons and parents do NOT help.

Its the way it is and no one can change anything about it, people will laugh at those poor kids and that's something i will hate to see, and that is mainly why i am against that adoption crap.
Jetteh22
Whoah.. Wait wait wait MrTouz...

Obviously you are an idiot. Or just stupid.. Maybe just ill-informed..

First of all you go saying FUCK YOU to someone because they made a valid point? Pretty rude.

Second, you say that because his father is a muslim he MUST be a muslim.. Like it's a 100% FACT that no matter what he DEFINATELY Believes everything his father does...

Talk about some MAJOR bullshit.. First of all, I can't disagree his father is because I'm not sure. I've never paid attention to it because religion doesn't mean shit to me.

So what your saying is that because my ENTIRE family is southern baptist I am also a southern baptist (christian)? Umm. No.

I don't believe in god. I don't believe in heaven. I don't believen in hell. I don't believe there is a super being that is watching over us.. It's retarded.

So.. How, if I went to church 3 times a week for the first 14 years of my life... Tell me. How come I am not a christian like my whole family is?
MrTouz
ITS not a valid point, where saying 'he said hussein so he said he is muslim...' never said that, i said his father is Muslim so he is, Hussein is a common name used with Muslims.

I have friends that are not Muslims called Mohamed. (well one). so the FUCK YOU... stays here biggrin.gif

i DID say he is Muslim because his father was, well when you are born, you do not decide... its the way it is.. JUST like you Jetteh, Christian family than your are Christian, JUST LIKE ME. My parents are, i use to go to Church while younger... but than stopped... because now i find Religions useless (you know my point of view about this)

Its like 'conversions when you are Christian become Muslim... you choose to be, well he is Muslim for sure from is father, but he NEVER EVER EVER EVER stated being Christian... i never saw him pray Christian GOD !
So he is NOT denying it !

You do not deny ? you technically do not say no.... or do not say you are not.

You Jetteh said you were not, because now you find it useless... i say i am, but i still find it useless... but no matter what we do, we are. Until we convert and by that 'religiously' deny the Christian religion. Its something that Obama did not do.

For me he is Muslim.

BETTER EXAMPLE :

Michael Jackson, is he black or white ? Technically he is black, he became white (for obvious reasons) but imagine a black not having MJ's illness, would you believe a black saying he is a white dude, but still being black ? its impossible... he is born black... he is obviously black... the only way to be white... is either being sick like MJ, or by changing your skin color (is it possible ?) i dunno. Is it the point ? no.

You can't deny something you are not going / fighting / proving / doing - against.

He is what he is, and no i am not judging - again.
aussiemcgr
QUOTE(MrTouz @ Aug 30 2008, 11:59 PM) *
Its like 'conversions when you are Christian become Muslim... you choose to be, well he is Muslim for sure from is father, but he NEVER EVER EVER EVER stated being Christian... i never saw him pray Christian GOD !
So he is NOT denying it !


I can only spend so much of my life aruging with an idiot like you, so I'll just make you feel stupid on one of your topics.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/worl...icle3194740.ece

This is obama talking in that article I just gave you:
QUOTE
"Let's make clear what the facts are: I am a Christian. I have been sworn in with a Bible. I pledge allegiance [to the American flag] and lead the pledge of allegiance sometimes in the United States Senate when I'm presiding."


Sounds like he's denying it to me, even "making clear what the facts are". Feeling stupid yet?
MrTouz
Not feeling stupid at all, you feel stupid only by ignorance, i will not deny what you posted above.

But this is from what i was going one :

QUOTE
Mr Obama, who was raised as a Christian by his white mother despite his Kenyan father being Muslim, has been dogged by smears and innuendo for months that he is in fact an Islamist trying to enter the Oval office by stealth.


You can see my source of info over there : Kenyan Father being Muslim.

Now again, i am not feeling stupid at all... only a bit smarter, thanks to you for that fact.

aussiemcgr
QUOTE(MrTouz @ Aug 31 2008, 12:19 AM) *
You can see my source of info over there : Kenyan Father being Muslim.


When giving a source, give an actual website, not a headline or whatever that is. And by the way, in that quote you gave me, it says specifically "who was raised as a Christian by his white mother despite his Kenyan father being Muslim" that he is obviously CHRISTIAN. He was raised as a Christian, and he has decided to stay on that path. The Islam faith doesnt seem to have any impact on him. Don't see how this argument is helping you.
DJPazze
QUOTE(Jetteh22 @ Aug 30 2008, 11:16 PM) *
I've already said that we were off topic and should stop talking about it but obviously some people can't stop talking about it. My inbox is flooded with replies to this topic. I'm subscribed to it so I can see peoples opinions on the matter of the presidents, NOT their gay-hating rants.

DJPazze you only have about 100 posts.. I'd say at least 1/8th of them are on this forum debating with me and others about whether gay people should have "rights" (because god knows you don't want us 'demanding' them).


1/8 laugh.gif LMFAO! Since you have nothing better to do but to argue, I invite you to count the number of posts I've posted here.

Don't fucking tell me you don't know how to count. laugh.gif
QUOTE(Jetteh22 @ Aug 30 2008, 11:16 PM) *
Try doing something more productive with your time and helping others.


Are you talking to yourself? You better be... so, you gonna tell me that you are helping others at this moment? I didn't know you were that helpful here. laugh.gif
Jetteh22
I used to help people whenever I got a chance but then I noticed that half of the people here on zymic are complete assholes so I only help somebody if they really need it (and if I actually know the answer)

I don't give website design reviews because I know i'm not good at that, but content reviews I try to every so often.

If you worked a job where you had to work 16 hour shifts then you wouldn't talk much either.

The only reason I have been coming on lately is because your posts have been flooding my email and pissing me off.
MrTouz
QUOTE(aussiemcgr @ Aug 31 2008, 12:37 AM) *
When giving a source, give an actual website, not a headline or whatever that is. And by the way, in that quote you gave me, it says specifically "who was raised as a Christian by his white mother despite his Kenyan father being Muslim" that he is obviously CHRISTIAN. He was raised as a Christian, and he has decided to stay on that path. The Islam faith doesnt seem to have any impact on him. Don't see how this argument is helping you.


You did not get what i was saying.
I was meaning that when i got the info about his father i did not get the 'no i am not muslim i am christian', i guess its because before this argument with clinton he never said it.
Sorry if the info did not came through the whole world !


QUOTE
I used to help people whenever I got a chance but then I noticed that half of the people here on zymic are complete assholes so I only help somebody if they really need it (and if I actually know the answer)
I don't give website design reviews because I know i'm not good at that, but content reviews I try to every so often.
If you worked a job where you had to work 16 hour shifts then you wouldn't talk much either.
The only reason I have been coming on lately is because your posts have been flooding my email and pissing me off.


ill help people even if they are complete assholes, i mean, a firefighter is not going to save that dude because he is cool or not... he is just going to save him. I do the same... but i kind of get what you mean by that.

And lol about the email thing.... you should remove it.
Jetteh22
Nah, i'm interested in what people have to say about the obama / mccain thing.
DJPazze just upset me so I got into it.

But helping people is a diff story altogether...

I dont care how much I hate someone I wouldn't let them die if I had a choice... but I'm not gonna go give money to someone if I hate them.
wozzym
lmao this doesnt need to get into a heated discussion guys. just respect eachothers opinions and ignore them (if needed). If you absolutely must say something, take it somewhere else.
Elite
Its a battle the isn't going to be won, neither I, Mr TOuz, aussie, or jetteh will win this, the fact of the matter is that people need to debate this matter in realtime or at least a chatroom, because each person has different views, their not wrong but also their not right.

and aussie sorry to hear that you have had problems because your an Australian, but thats the world, most importantly thats america, kids are complete assholes when their younger, I myself have been made fun of, but people can change they get mature, and hopefully well stop being assholes. you can't change that.

and sorry to get back on this topic but jetteh, KIDs have had mental issues where they want to commit suicide because of their life, because they have no friends, because people pick on them, bully them, tease them, get in fights with them, and with a gay parent children at that age can't accept it so everything that i said above gets worse, and that will leave a child affected.

now back to the mccain/obama subject obama is muslim get over it, mccain is the better candidate even tho for that last time...they both suck. mccain tho offers change and can dish it out, while obama wants to change by raising takes on me, but lowering them on the person who doesn't want to work, who doesn't want to help himself, so im paying for the asshole that doesn't want to work....Thats fair, not only that he votes for the same shit mccain votes for. how is that change?

im sorry but i don't want a president like that, mccain is the better choice.
aussiemcgr
QUOTE(Elite @ Aug 31 2008, 11:00 AM) *
now back to the mccain/obama subject obama is muslim get over it


Dude how much of a fucking retard are you????? OBAMA IS NOT A MUSLIM!!!! How much fucking proof do you need??? How about you get over the fact that he isnt Muslim.

And btw, McCain is a shit choice because hes an old ass man who has absolutely no public speaking skills and cant remember shit. Do you want a president that cant even remember how many houses he has? I always thought that watching Bush talk was the funniest thing in the world, but after seeing McCain talk, I just constantly laugh my ass off from all the stupid ass things that he says. If anything, he is stupider than Bush.
MrTouz
QUOTE
Dude how much of a fucking retard are you????? OBAMA IS NOT A MUSLIM!!!! How much fucking proof do you need??? How about you get over the fact that he isnt Muslim.


I don't think he saw the proof, well he is not Muslim.... good for him.

QUOTE
And btw, McCain is a shit choice because hes an old ass man who has absolutely no public speaking skills and cant remember shit. Do you want a president that cant even remember how many houses he has? I always thought that watching Bush talk was the funniest thing in the world, but after seeing McCain talk, I just constantly laugh my ass off from all the stupid ass things that he says. If anything, he is stupider than Bush.


See now you can't say he is a bad choice, its a choice... bad or not, its a choice... who ever it is... it does not really matter.

As for his houses, i think most people are jealous, no i am being serious, its like asking a rich dude how much you make ? its totally pointless to ask, he is going to say i dunno just like he can say its none of your business.
I think its stupid to judge someone from this, there was a polemic here in France about it as well.

But, i actually never heard him speak, but if you saw he is funnier than Bush... than i am giving him a big LOL
aussiemcgr
QUOTE(MrTouz @ Aug 31 2008, 04:16 PM) *
As for his houses, i think most people are jealous, no i am being serious, its like asking a rich dude how much you make ? its totally pointless to ask, he is going to say i dunno just like he can say its none of your business.
I think its stupid to judge someone from this, there was a polemic here in France about it as well.

But, i actually never heard him speak, but if you saw he is funnier than Bush... than i am giving him a big LOL

Well, I just think hes really close to getting Alzheimer if hes doesnt have it already.

MrTouz, I left these vids so you can watch his speeches, and some other because I thought they were funny.

Hes more a comedian than president I think (maybe not by intention).
Just got to say, WOW:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRUhlws5TOI...feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xy8-QdHQFI&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGfGtC4Ldms...feature=related

Lol, president Putin:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXA7JpdlyEQ&NR=1

And about the POW crap (obviously cant prove any of it, all hearsay):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6s7kEb6Osqc...feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGh-vq0O5gw...feature=related

Just a good vid I thought I'd include:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xokl1zNWLg8...feature=related
MrTouz
QUOTE(aussiemcgr @ Aug 31 2008, 05:18 PM) *
Well, I just think hes really close to getting Alzheimer if hes doesnt have it already.

MrTouz, I left these vids so you can watch his speeches, and some other because I thought they were funny.

Hes more a comedian than president I think (maybe not by intention).
Just got to say, WOW:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRUhlws5TOI...feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xy8-QdHQFI&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGfGtC4Ldms...feature=related

Lol, president Putin:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXA7JpdlyEQ&NR=1

And about the POW crap (obviously cant prove any of it, all hearsay):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6s7kEb6Osqc...feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGh-vq0O5gw...feature=related

Just a good vid I thought I'd include:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xokl1zNWLg8...feature=related


I could not watch it after the second video, i admit he is doing some pretty stupid stuff and saying pretty much only crazy things.

Final word i guess....

GO OBAMA !
aussiemcgr
QUOTE(MrTouz @ Aug 31 2008, 06:12 PM) *
I could not watch it after the second video, i admit he is doing some pretty stupid stuff and saying pretty much only crazy things.

Final word i guess....

GO OBAMA !


From the videos,
1st video, my favorite quote is: "We should be able to deliver bottled hot water to dehydrated babies"
2nd video, my favorite quote is: "I'm sorry, the Iranians are...are...training extremists not al-Qaeda"
3rd video, my favorite quote is: "Ah...General ah...Patrious goes out there almost every day in an unarmed...um um...humvee" (turns out to be a lie)
4th video, my favorite quote is: "President Putin of Germany"
I dont think McCain speaks in the 5th and 6th videos.
7th video, my favorite quote is: "Let me remind you Congress Wain...men, we never lost a battle in Vietnam, it was American public opinion that forced us to loose that conflict"
SwintellSoft
QUOTE(Jetteh22 @ Aug 29 2008, 02:28 AM) *
That's just ignorant DJPazze

He does have a point there....I mean ive talked to alot of my friends and some of them think just becuase he black hes gonna make a change.... hate to break it to you ppl but hes no different the any white presadent (not good or bad wise) just saying you shouldnt vote for some one becuase the colour of their skin haha but i dont think hes voting for him for THAT reason but ok


QUOTE(aussiemcgr @ Aug 29 2008, 07:09 PM) *
Now we really have to look at our perceptive of a president. My opinion of a president is someone who looks intellectual and looks like he has a desire for change. EVERY single president has been a rich, white male. He may not look like what you would consider a president, but we havent ever seen what a president would look like if he wasnt a rich, white male. And as it is, even if a president had a presidential look (which McCain doesnt have either), looks can be deceiving.

yes a president should be smart not strong.... strong has nothing to do with it benching 500 will not help you when making critical government decisions


QUOTE(Elite @ Aug 29 2008, 09:02 PM) *
so where does it say anywhere that adopting childeren is a right? or for that matter marriage, in my personal opinion that should be considered a privelege, anyone else agree?

_Edit: posted other stuff but i see we changed the subject.
But both candidates are horrible and they both dont care what you want. but ill vote for McCain because he knows what he is talking about while Barrack will have to force me out Iraq by himself if he wants to back out troops. because once we leave, they will follow, and they WILL invade they WILL. and not only will i laugh at the people being killed from these people but i will also feel the need to fight for them AGAIN. but why should i fight for them for they took me out of iraq, and caused the problem that will come,

but forget the war tell me what barrack promises you incompetent people.

I think adopting children is a wonderful idea, I for one have known a few ppl who were foster children and they hated it , And gay ppl adopting will not only take them out of those hell holes but give them a nice stable home ,But i also think they should be exposed to strieght ppl as well as gay , that way its the kids choice , and not what they think mommy and mommy or daddy and daddy are doing is only way , just as well as streight couples should tell their children being gay is right as well.


~~~~~~~
Basicly you have to just look into both of their pasts... they both have some pretty big bumps... I for one can not vote but if i could I would vote for obama.... I dont care if hes black or if he was musslem i dont really like him , but he just seems a more suitible choice then mcain , mcain would have been my first choice if he hadnt gone and went all bush on every one , he is a decent man , but hes to tied in with the bush family... he wants to do everything bush did , he thinks it right and its not



thank you aussi for posting those vids the person who said i didnt have proof, well now i have vids to back up my stuff XD
MrTouz
Swintellsoft from France ?

I think both of them are not that good, I personally wanted Hilary ...

DJPazze
JUST VOTE FOR WHOEVER YOU THINK IS THE RIGHT CANDIDATE!!! angry.gif


Vote Obama- Vote McCain. PERIOD! smile.gif
Elite
i love your education, "We should be able to deliver bottled hot water to dehydrated babies", hot water not only quenches your thirst more than cold water does, but helps the body maintain heat. the reason it quenches better than cold water is because it on a hot day its hotter outside your body usually than inside your body over there, the hot water helps maintain stability between outside and inside, (im assuming he was talking about africa)

Arcadia i believe was a race/or group that had "heavenly" nature, didn't fight, and helped everyone, correct me if im wrong, long time since my last history class.

"Let me remind you Congress Wain...men, we never lost a battle in Vietnam, it was American public opinion that forced us to loose that conflict"-- umm really? in vietnam a couple of battles were lost, well not really lost but we retreated from because, we had general's that actually listened to America's citizens, (see what happens?), and some were lost due to incorrect information.

and i didn't anyone hear disagree with me on obama's taxes haha

not only that the reason obama is such a "CELEBRITY" (which i despise) is because many countries want obama so they can walk all over us just like they did when Clinton was in office, yeh obama will bring change.. but not the change you want.
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