See we're basically on the same page.
And I wasn't implying that.



Haha, so true.



I don't think anyone could have said it better.

obama cant be christian if he is pro choice....

and i am not trying to be racist or anything but obama will get shot before his inauguration if elected thats just the way this country is....


furthermore he did not even have the respect for our country....he did not recite the pledge of aligence nor did he put his hand over his heart....not one i would have for a pres. if you ask me

So Christians can't make choices? We have the choice to kill thousands in Iraq or let thousands die in Africa but not the choice for abortion? Who can be pro-choice? Jews? Budhists? Mormons? Why do you discriminate against religion? America was founded on religious freedom.

So if you don't like "the way this country is" wouldn't you want someone to change it (cough, cough, Obama, cough)? If you do like that you think he would be shot immediately than I have nothing to say to you except get some morals.



Yup.

His idea for Iraq is to pull out and send our guys back if the situation goes bad. That's a death sentence for a lot more troops down the road.

Hopefully if things continue as they are now in Iraq, if Obama does get into office, we'll have brought the Iraqi military and government to the position where they can defend themselves and we'll come out ok anyway.

McCain's plan is simple - reduce troop levels based on conditions on the ground. The way things are going now that could be pretty soon anyway. McCain knows national security - he knows what it means to serve, to sacrifice, and when to seek help on any issues he may not be strong on. McCain said a while back he was better at national security than the economy, but he's learned a lot since then. Besides, exactly what's good about Obama's economic plans?

And on McCain's issue with being "Bush III" - he's made decisions based on what he's believed would do the country the most good. Whether or not they happen to coincide with what Bush did too shouldn't matter if it helped the country and our military. Bush ordered the surge and McCain was one of the original supports of the new plan - that new plan has basically won us Iraq now.

Would just like to say I'm not spamming, just proving a point...

http://www.faithandaction.org/index.cfm?fu...;feature_id=126
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/01/21/obama/
http://www.newsweek.com/id/145971
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jws4AA6...3tZ-GAD92J09601
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail...hasizes_ob.html
http://mensnewsdaily.com/archive/s/stix/2004/stix082204.htm
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/worl...icle3194740.ece
http://obama.senate.gov/speech/060628-call_to_renewal/
http://www.christianpost.com/article/20071...ian-leaders.htm


I can get more if you'd like. I just went down the first page of google.

@aussiemcgr

Thanks for the links. They really strenghthen my arguement.

@Eagle 1

Bush's idea was to lie, go in, and kill people (on both sides).

Last January, Iraq leaders met together and only agreed on one thing. Take a wild guess at what that was. That they wanted Americans out. Guess what Bush said. Oh, they are finally agreeing on something. This shows that it is working and we should stay!

Bush's approval rating is retardedly low. So if McCain's ideas "happen to coincide with what Bush did" shouldn't 70% of the country hate him too? This just shows you people do not know what is going on and can't think for themselves. They'd rather listen to oil companies, church leaders (not all are good you know), and Fox news.

It's not like this is World War II. This is Bush's stupid thing that he lied about and blew way out of porportion. If we pull out (effectively, but very quickly) it's not like the Nazi's will take over the world. If we wouldn't have went in in the first place we wouldn't have this problem anyway. Bush just can't admit his mistakes (and his lies).

How many hundreds of people died in 9/11? And how many hundreds of thousands of people have died in this war? How many lives are equal to one American life? If you ask me, Americans are selfish, stubborn, and lazy. We need to start thinking of others as equals and look at the world in a twenty-first century way. No matter how much the Republicans try to say that the world isn't and shouldn't be changing, it is. I hate change in my personal life. It's understandable. But denying it like this on a world level is rediculous.

And if you're going to blame Obama for one specific incident, I could think of dozens of incidents of Bush's idiocy. Like Bush's response to 9/11 for instance (reading to the children). If you haven't seen that tape, I'd look it up! It's very entertaining.

I'm aware of what they said, but dont try to make it that simple. Wish it could be, but it's not. A time horizon (a term I actually hate hearing) is being proposed. What does that mean? It means a broad range of time in the future when we can pull out based on conditions on the ground.


And Congress's approval rating? *Cough* the Democratic Congress.

We know not to listen to all church leaders - apparently Obama has a little trouble in that area.

In the intrest of keeping fair and balanced, how come you haven't mentioned MSNBC's overwhelmingly biased reporting? Fox, while I'll admit is a right leaner, go after the right as well as the left. MSNBC is basically the Obama All-The-Time Channel, and CNN used to be left biased in my opinion, but as of recently have done pretty well reporting everything fairly - which is kind of wierd since the way my channels are set up - MSNBC, CNN, and Fox News come right after eachother, in that order


The "Bush Lied Troops Died" line is really just getting old now. No, he didn't lie. He provided us what our intelligence told him. Yeah, it was wrong, but can I have your opinion on this? Would you rather Saddam Hussein still be in power? I know it's not WWII, but I can easily relate Saddam to Hitler and Stalin, and allowing Saddam to stay in power is a crime in itself.


Nearly 3000 people died on September 11th. I remember 9/11 every single day.

America is a country of humanitarians. All members of the United States Military are taught service before self. With the exception of a few idiots who have disgraced the uniform in this war, the American military has even provided care for the enemies that we've wounded in the field after battle. We have shown compassion, and selflessness on a daily basis over there and around the world. Every single day people all across the United States, whether they be in the military, in civilian organizations, in law enforcement or emergency services, aim to train and provide the best service possible to people all around the country and the world. Does this country have selfish and arrogant people who I'd rather just be shot in the head? Yes. However the vast majority of Americans are good people.

Ya know, it's a fact of war that people die. Yes, thousands of Americans and others have died in this war. It's a horrible cost, but think about it - you call us selfish? Thousands and thousands of more people would die without us, in Iraq, and around the world. People are tired of us being the world's police? Well, someone needs to do it, the job needs to be fulfilled, and you know it. Thinking about the UN? They can't even define terrorism. Nothing gets done overthere unless we're involved anyway, and by the time they'd act on anything of importance, we'd be dead.


Are you serious? What the hell do you expect him to do? There was nothing for him to do elsewhere, and he kept the kids calm there. That was by far one of the better parts of the day - that for a few hours more, they could have a nice day.

By the time Bush was told about it, our military was activitated. We were doing our jobs. If another situation arose, then he'd be told about it, and he'd respond to it if a Presidential decision was required, but at that point, there was nothing he, even as the President of the United States, could do. We closed all air traffic. Fighters were scrambled and on patrol. Emergency services on the ground were doing their jobs, and people all over the country did their's to help in the days following.

Bush's reading to children has got to be the worst possible argument anyone has brought up to me about Bush.

Haha, seriously? Ya, if I were president I would look across the room "nonchalantly" several times, and continue reading. Haha. He didn't even ask who or where or why or anything! Oh, dear. It wasn't really my "point" but more of a funny thing.

I agree with you on news (thank you for realizing CNN is fair).

I am not going to comment on anything else you said. It would be a waste of my time. you wouldn't care anyway. I've told you my view, so now I'm done. If anyone else has a comment though, I'd happily answer (even if you disagree with me).

Eagle 1, please realize I'm only disliking your political arguements nothing else. And a bit of the reason I'm not replying is because you are about as stubborn as i am. That and it makes me a little angry.

Ahahahahaahahaha, if the US has taken over the job of "world police" then they've done a crap job. The entire purpose of "police" is to bring peace to the area by capturing the "criminals" with little damage as possible. Also, if there were such thing as the "world police" they would policing the WORLD, not just their own country. Ya, there are problems in the middle east but its not the only place. What about the constant violence in the Sudan and the human right issues in China? The US pretty much ignores this because it hasnt really effected them yet well, police arent suppose to ignore parts of their area just because they dont see it as a threat. The US isnt a "world police", its ruled by a bunch of self-centered politicians that dont know when to throw in the towel.

Yup. We're not "world police". We're just greedy.

actually, the UN was designed to be the "world police". Fantastic fricken job they're doing, huh.

Well, based on Bush's approval ratings, I vote Obama. Mccain will basically do the same thing as him, most republican leaders want money, war (which leads to profits, so again money), and generally do not care for the lower class or middle class. I usually am Republican in my presidential views but I am sick and tired of US and Iraq caused violence and high gas prices.

Well thank you for changing your normal views to support reason. I truly respect it when people not only support a candidate but do it out of their normal voting.

If people were telling the President that something happened to the country, they wouldn't hold back information - or they'd at least say he needed to leave and get more information elsewhere.


Thank you for agreeing with me there


I care about all views, so long as they're presented fully and not just "half-views" or statements that have no backing like most people give me. I've had plenty of conversations with people who presented good arguments for their side, and where both of us have admitted faults.


I know, I've got no negative feelings against you. My stubbornness relates to some things more than others. When I know I'm correct and have the facts on my side, I won't budge, but if there is information I don't know, I'm always eager to learn.


Still - do you see anyone else doing it? Yeah, there's stuff we missed, no doubt there, but we're basically the only real force in the world that can do anything, and it'll continue being that way no matter who is President.

eagle we may be the only force that can do anything , but we have to think about our selves.... Alot of the countrys do not like what we are doing and will most likly kill us =D

Obama all the way.

Well, most of the countries in the world get some type of aid from us, so at least we'll have to wait for them to take advantage of that, build up their militaries, and then try to kill us years from now

This is a very good question. I would personally vote for obama, but I do not this he will win. For you people saying that Obama is ahead in the polls. This is only about a couple percent, like 5%. This time in the year during the other election Al Gore was ahead %15 in the polls. McCaine is interested in the Iraq war, which everyone is complaining about, you'd think this would mean less people would vote for him, yet look at Bush, 2 terms, they hated him after the first one, and yet... he was elected again.

2 many republicans in the country...

true that brotha... most of the damn weapons the terrorist have we supplied them , either the acuall weapons or the funding lol XD

Ya. I would have thought they'd all die out by now.

Haha... ya.

Obama has the least experience. I don't really care about who wins and so since I am riding on experience, I voted for McCain.

LOL
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/07/15/s...o_n_112955.html

Anywho, just because someone has more experience doesnt mean that they are better for the job. Regardless of experience, I cant see McCain doing anything to help the country. If anything, he will build on the giant pile of shit that Bush has made.

Obama is going to win. Democrats are sick of republicans. Republicans are sick of republicans. Americans are sick of republicans.

Minimum wages need to be raised. Cost of living where I am compared to minimum wage where I am is unbelievable. It's hard enough to live while I'm making $10 an hour. That's why I'm moving to central-florida next year instead of SW FL where I live now.


Abortions? Isn't america based on "rights" ? It has always been a "right" to have an abortion if one wanted one. It shouldn't change.

I'm not voting though. I can, but I won't. I havn't paid much attention and probably won't. I'll vote in 2012 I guess.

I am for abortion.... ppl say "what about god way!" WELL NOT EVERY ONE BELIVES IN "GODS" WAY...... and your right in is america wich is supposed to be free....

and their are also ppl who are like "its living babys..." well their inside the stomache not like their feeling pain..... and its usually done in the very early stages....


ppl will always have their beliefs....stupid ppl >.>

Just because you do not agree with one's belief does not make it 'stupid'. I am pro-life, as I would never want to kill my own child. With that said, my position on abortion has no effect on who I am voting for. Pro-life candidates do not make much of a difference anyhow. I would rather judge the candidates based on their other positions and history.

Just so you know, central Florida isnt that great. I live in a little town called Winter Springs a few miles north of Orlando. Only up sides I've found to central Florida compared to the other regions is that we dont hit as badly by hurricanes.





The idea of a candidate wanting to change the rules so its all pro-life is just dumb as it is. I mean if it stays as a pro-choice country, there is nothing forcing anyone into having abortions. There is nothing forcing you to "kill your own child" because you have the right to choose. I'm glad that your choice isnt made based on abortion position.
Having a child is a big change in someone's life, why should anyone have the ability to force people to make that change even if they arent ready, financially or physically. I'm not saying I'm against children or anything, my sister is giving birth in December and frankly cant wait to be an uncle. My sis didnt get an abortion, not because shes pro-life but because she felt like it was a point in her life where she could afford to make such a dramatic change. But what about those people who arent ready or fit to have the responsibility that comes with having children? Should they be forced to have that responsibility, despite the damage it could do to their life, the child's life, or their relationship with their partner?

Actually.. When I can move just outisde of kissimmee or orlando and get a 1 bedroom apartment for less than 600 per month(depending, obviously), compared to 800+ a month where I live now then it is alot better

That's not the only reason I'm moving up there though. Have a job lined up for me making 13.8 an hour (compared to my 10 an hour now) and will be staying w/ my bf's cousins for 300/month until we go and get our own place.

So essentially I'll have over 900 dollars a month (after rent and spending money) to save and blow.

But honestly.. I live in a retirement town right now. It's wayyyy too expensive to live here. You either have to be rich or poor to find a place to live. You can't be in the middle.

The living prices can be generous if you know where to look. Also, if you've never been to Orlando during Halloween, go around that time in October, lot of fun. Same goes for Universal, Central Florida is a fun place to be in October, rest of the year its boring.

Well i was reading the beginning of the topic and realized there was many dumb people. Well for those who actually came to a point without proving anything but just by providing there own feelings.

For the abortion page, isn't abortion not allow by Christians at all ?
For the 'shit happens' shouldn't you not fuck your girlfriend before marriage ?

Yes its the person who decides, but if you go by the 'rules' Christian rules... because we all know how American runs with the church and all... (nothing against that) people shouldn't abort.

As for the Obama not being Muslim.
Last i know, his father is Muslim (from Kenya) his mother is American from Kansas, tho his parents divorced when he was little and his father died on a car crash... he is still Muslim even tho if he does not pray or what ever...
His name is Barack Hussein Obama II, Hussein is commonly name used by Muslims.

I really have to agree with Tom and the different point of views between Cain and Obama and i will tend to like more Obama tho the part of Raising minimum wage is totally stupid (look at what happen when Martine Aubry lowered the max work time per week and when the Socialist raised the minimum wage in France - we are the only country in Europe to work 35 hours and make around 1300bucks a month - look at how bad France's economy is looking)

And at last :



I have to agree with this... well i really do not see an Muslim Afro-American running the country without being shot at least twice a week !

... plot to kill Obama ?

OBAMA IS NOT MUSLIM!!! Just because you have a Muslim name doesnt make you a Muslim. And even so, NOT ALL MUSLIMS ARE TERRORISTS, so why does it even matter? If you want me to go down the second page of google and give you those links as proof of Obama not being a Muslim then I will be more than happy to. Get your facts right man.
I said it earlier and I'll say it again, pro-life is stupid because it forces you into one option. With pro-choice, you still have the option to not abort. Saying that everyone should play by your rules (despite it being "gods word", still your rules) is definitely not what Freedom stands for. By promoting pro-life, you are actually reducing the amount of freedoms that you have. The United States may have been built using the idea of total freedom, however lets say that each politician that comes into power decides that their way is best so they change those rules, ultimately resulting in less freedoms. First pro-choice is gotten rid of, whos to say that the next president wont say "People swear to much, and I dont like it. So I'm going to limit or get rid of freedom of speech or create censorship.", and the next president doesnt like how the media is getting into his(her) business so s/he restricts freedom of the press, and the next president is very religious and thinks that his(her) religion is correct, so s/he gets rid of freedom of religion. The point is that it will never stop, everyone will change the rules to fit the way that they want it and eventually the idea of freedom will completely be gone in the US. I idea of restricting people to believe and think one way is not what the idea of democracy is about.

Alright well obviously im new here but i feel like i should say something. for one people are ignorant no question about it, Barrack claims to take down the big oil producers, but didn't he vote on the same issue mccain did but they both picked the same situation: keeping it. now im not picking sides to anything here both are equally horrible candidates, just like the past 20 presidents, not saying that there weren't some good presidents just saying presidents DO NOT care about what citizens think and its been proven through presidents like Bill Clinton, when we finally start voting on presidents who use common sense, then we got a winner, but until then people will fight for what they believe in even if they happen to be uneducated and ignorant. im voting for mccain for a couple reasons, no gay marriage, keeping the troops in Iraq etc.



umm the constitution, and your talking about ignorance,

And dont come talking to me about the war i support it , Ill be going back for my 3rd Tour in novemeber. why because im not an unpatriotic degenerate, im not saying going to war with who were at is right, its wrong and i admit it we are fighting the wrong people, but i am an american and ill back up my fellow soldiers, the only problem is we have people in prison fighting for their country pathetic isn't it? because we don't have enough patriots wanting to fight for what is theirs, but what im trying to say is THINK, peace won't settle shit with who we are dealing with not in this period in time.

And when Barrack pulls the troops out...use your common sense, they will attack U.S. all of us now im not going to sit back and let that happen. after my 4th tour ill be heading out to a military base in colorado, to start training for the navy seals.

Welcome to the forum, but wow dude you are going to call me ignorant. Why are you against gay marriages? How the hell does it effect you in any way if homosexuals get married? THIS is ignorance, and I'm sure Jetteh22 will agree with me on this one.




The constitution also promotes the idea of separation of church and state and freedom of religious opinion. When will the abortion issue be considered what it truly is, a religiously effected opinion. To get rid of abortions is going against the first amendment. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..." The abortion topic is directly effected by the politician saying that it is "going against god's plan" or it is what "god wants", which proves that the abortion issue shouldnt even be allowed to get discussed.



Also ignorant, THIS COUNTRY IS TOO DAMN STUBBORN! The united states have just been punching walls for the past several years, and the only thing that has come from it all is our economy going to shit. Oil wells have been set on fire, riding up oil prices around the world. Billions of dollars were sent into a war that doesnt have anything to show for it. And heres the irony of all this, a substantial amount of oil the US is buying is being used to run the military vehicles being used in the Middle East. So the US is buying the oil in the Eurasia area, and using it there...For what? What the hell good can this possibly be doing for the middle east, for the united states, and for the world? All this civil war crap going on in the Middle East has nothing to do with the United States at this point. The United States has done enough damage over there and it is time to let them figure out their own problems. Barrack is my candidate because he understands this.

Have you seen the dept clock lately? 9.6 trillion dollars, half of which has occurred in Bush's years. 1.87 billion dollars per day. By that, each united states citizen needs to pay the government an additional $6.21 per day (additional $2,266.65 a year on top of taxes) to stop the decline. Also, to break even, each citizen should pay an additional $31,974.67. The war is running the country beyond dry, and it is only getting worse each day. The dept is shit, and McCain is just going to continue this decline, I cant guarantee Barrack wont, but we have a better chance with Obama opposed to McCain.

Who cares if Obama is Muslim or not!


McCain 2008 :cool:

religion has alot to do with what im saying. i don't believe in gay marriages, i believe in 1 man and 1 woman, but i don't really have a choice in the matter UNLESS you can vote on a president who won't allow it. now if we do happen to allow gay marriages from Barrack i can't really do anything about it, and don't really care as long as they aren't trying to "convert" me. but allowing gay marriages will only cause problems, what else will people want? getting married with themselves? or a clone of themself?

And didn't i say the war was wrong? but i will back up the troops, ask any of the hardcore troops, they want to continue it. WE cannot LEAVE YET

You do not read what i type, seriously i did not say because he is named Hussein he is muslim... i am saying because his FATHER was... than he IS. You can choose that... i mean, my father is Lebanese from Armenia... dude... i am a Lebanese with Armenian origins, i am Christian because my father is.
Just like Obama is because HIS FATHER IS... i never heard anything about Obama converting to Christianism ? its a fact that you can't go against.

May i ask about why you bring terrorism on to this, no on makes the comparison about Obama being Muslim and being a terrorist... no one is scared of Obama being a terrorist because he is Muslim... i see only this 'get the fuck out of my country you terrorist' only in American movies sorry to say it .. but its true... i have many Muslim friends here and they are not terrorists



Why against GAY marriage ? because being a FAG is just not right ? is it ? i mean... did not GOD create me a DICK to shove it up my GF's PUSSY ? is it not how things should work ? i mean... god made you eyes so you can see... nose so you can smell ... well use it correctly than... your penis was not made to fuck an other ones ASS (at least not a dude )
No seriously dude, its so against the values of ANY countries. NO religions allow gay marriages... NO no matter what you are... being GAY is not right.... being GAY is being SICK.
Now we will allow Gay marriage... than sisters and brothers marriage.. than mommy and son... and daddy and girl... wtf ? than why not all get married all together... ?

Control is what we need, all over the world. without control... tomorrow is lost.



I have to agree with the above tho, its a free country and the only way to control our opinions and make sure they are applied is by voting to someone that has the same opinions.

Wow, you guys are real assholes.

First, you cant be "converted" into gayness, thats just ignorant.

Second, both you guys gave some restarted ass outcomes that have nothing to do with gay marrages or gay relationships: "getting married with themselves? or a clone of themself?" and "than sisters and brothers marriage.. than mommy and son... and daddy and girl... wtf ? than why not all get married all together... ?". Getting married to themselves and/or clones are just a stupid thought that has absolutely nothing to do with the matter at hand. And sister, brother, mommy, son, daddy, and girl marriage and/or lovin' is incest and also, has nothing to do with gay marriage or gay rights.

Third, MrTouz couldnt be more of a prejustice asshole and because of that, I will have to speak the truth. The NONEXISTENT God's word should absolutely nothing to do with someone selecting their candidate. I'm not a homosexual, but you somehow managed to offend me with what you said. Heres why you are an asshole: you called homosexuals fags which is an extremely offensive word, saying that god created your dick to shove up your gf's pussy could be the most perverted thing you could say, who are you to say how things should work, who are you to say that being gay isnt right, and who are you to say that being gay is sick? Have you ever thought about the opinions of homosexual people? What they think when someone like you comes around and says the most offensive things? How about you live one week in the life of someone having to face constant prejustice and ridicule, and you will understand what an asshole you are. Since you say all that shit about gays, let me say shit about your stupid and illogical religious beliefs. GOD DOESNT EXIST NOR WILL HE EVER EXIST. GOD HAS NO EFFECT ON THE WORLD NOR HAS HE EVER HAD ANY EFFECTS. THE BIBLE WAS MEANT TO TEACH PEOPLE LESSONS TO USE IN THEIR LIFE TO LIVE A HAPPY AND RESPECTFUL LIFE. THE STORIES TOLD ARE FICTIONAL AND NOT THE OPINIONS OF EVERYONE IN THE WORLD. BELIEVING IN A GOD IS IGNORANT AND HINDERING YOUR VIEW OF REALITY. WHAT YOU DO AND HOW YOU LIVE YOUR LIFE WILL EFFECT YOU DURING YOUR LIFE BECAUSE IT WILL EFFECT YOUR OUTLOOK OF THE WORLD AROUND YOU. How about you sit down with a homosexual and for once in your life, try to understand why they are gay and how their choices dont effect you in any way whatsoever. MrTouz, you are an ignorant, prejustice, and moronic asshole who doesnt deserve to even be alive. You are the perfect example of why the world is so shitty, people like you are only hindering society's expansion and development.

Lets see whats next...


MrTouz again it seems. This may surprise you, but religion isnt hereditary. You are not a Christian because your father was, you are a Christian because of the personal choice YOU made. Just because Obama's father was a Muslim doesnt mean he is. There is a very small amount of people who break away from the religious beliefs of their parents. I applaud Obama for being one of the few people to decide on his own path in life instead of just following his parents. Obama is a Christian because of the personal choice that HE made. Once again, you are very ignorant.



You live in France, so you dont quite understand this. There are ALOT of stupid-ass rednecks or prejustice idiots in the United States that, to this day, still think that EVERY Muslim is armed with an explosive. I know people that yell insults and racial slurs at Muslims because they view them as a threat. People in the United States are idiots (2004 election as proof), that is one thing that you need to understand. If someone looks like a Muslim, then they are treated as a terrorist. It has gotten so bad here that Muslims cant even prayer in public because they fear of being incarcerated. Some people say that Muslims shouldnt be praying in public, in that case, no one, regardless of religion, should pray in public. That means the Catholics shouldnt make a cross, it means that Buddhists shouldnt meditate in a quite, peaceful area, and it means that Christians shouldnt thank god for anything, unless they are in the secretary of their own home. For those "patriots" that didnt know or realize, by being prejudice against ONE religion, is going against the the first amendment and thus, against the constitution. If someone is trying to be "patriotic" by worrying that every Muslim is a threat, they are actually being anti-patriotic.
Additionally for those people who believe that Muslims are all terrorists because they are Muslims, consider that almost every religion has a terrorist group that, after reading their bibles, received the wrong message. One of the worse terrorist groups is actually Christian. I am referring to the KKK. They are highly religious, extremely prejudice, and without a doubt, extremists. Until this misconception of all Muslims being part of the Taliban goes away, I will consider all Christians to be members of the KKK.



For those wondering, I am neither gay nor Muslim. I am a white male who lives a happy and self-prosperous life

haha how can you say incest won't be a problem in the future? that is what people will want when they get gay marriage allowed? right? or will they just be content their whole lives because they are so "GAY"





the only thing i agree with you about^^ except for the effect he has on the world., because that is what religion is about, believing in god, another reason why we have this war., but your still missing the facts..Religion is like a base, you base your life off of morals and what you believe in. BUT also if we evolved what about how we evolved?, we didn't evolve from fucking someone in the ass did we?, we didn't evolve from someone using another one from the same sex to satisfy their sexual desires, we evolved just like any other animal, we had help from technology and educating each other, but how can you sit there and say that someone won't come up to you trying to turn you GAY because thats what they WANT!, i mean seriously if that wasn't the case they wouldn't be here trying to get something else they WANT which is gay marriage. like i said i don't support gay marriage and never will, but one person voting can't change the world.

No jodan tanto con este post cabrones.

There is no need to argue about who you want the next president to be! If you want to vote for Obama just do it.

I am voting for my grandpa McCain.

I'm saying that incest has nothing at all to do with gay rights. Why even compare them?



That is all fine and all, but we arent talking about the entire world turning gay. We are talking about the indivual rights of those people that are gay. Where someone sticks what or licks what doesnt effect me or change my life in any way, nor does someone marrying someone of the same sex. My sister used to be married to another girl (ex-lesbian, its complicated) and despite it occurring in my own family, it had no effect on my life in any way. It didnt change a thing. I dont see the harm that comes with two people getting married, regardless of sex. And it shouldnt effect your life either. Maybe one person cant change the world, but enough people making the same vote can. If gay rights are abolished, we will see how truly prejudice this country really is. One of the many reasons I plan on moving back to Australia after I finish my schooling. I know there will be prejudice and bigots in Australia aswell, but the United States is just full of them. Rights were given to women and blacks, but taken away from homosexuals? How is that fair? You cannot justify this by using religion as an excuse.

To: ausiemcgr



Let me tell you something:

You are right, it doesn't affect me but you have to realize that IF the president/government allows gay marriage, Gay people will demand other rights as well, i.e. the right to adopt children. Since they will be unable to have kids of their own, they will try to adopt other's, if they manage to adopt kids, then they will be affecting those kids' lives.

I don't have anythihng against gay people. People are free to choose who they want to satisfy their sexual needs with.

Marriage??? Don't even think about it! Marriage= Male+Female. Period!

its a way of saying, these are steps, i remember while i was younger when homosexual people asked to be considered as married for document purposes (living together / same accounts... well all the paper crap married people are allowed to do and not hs).
What i can see now is that they want marriage... than adoption... than this and that.
Its just my opinion and nothing you say about it can change the way i feel (read below for explanation)



Well in most of the candidates its what comes first... church and how they follow the Christians rules... i mean.. its an argument of vote. lots of candidate put that on there labels. Sucks uh ?



Lmao i got to say sorry... it was not in my attentions but oh well... sometimes people do things without wanting to do it....



Ok above i admit i was an asshole and to be serious on the subject i truly have nothing against gay people... i use to hang out with gay people... wait one of my friend is. He actually knows my opinion about it, but its just my opinion... don't judge me please.
Ok above i used kind of bad words and i apologize for offending anyone.. its not my purposes but just the way i set things up... again don't judge me.



See the above ? that's with what i am going to eat you.

You are basically asking me to admit that gay is right and not to offend homosexuals but you are above telling me that god does not exist. That is kind of bad from you... telling someone not to do something you are actually doing ! it has a word... just can't find it... : ?



No its not.. i have to admit that, but does he carry a cross ? nope.


I have to agree with the above.

_____

Now to continue :

I personally believe that being homosexual is a 'maladie' in French terms... illness.
Why ? is your question, because i am Christian and i have beliefs just like YOU do, and the way my parents raised me... being homosexual is not an option.

Now to tell you that most people in the world have a religion (yes most of the people in the world follow a religion) well in NONE of them it has been stated that being homosexual is good OR ok. In none of them.
Meaning that most of the people (when i say most... i say around 80 to 90 percent of the worlds population) will understand that being homosexual is not good. Well is not something that is good for them, or if you prefer not something that is allowed or something that they don't understand, or something they feel is not right or something they feel is called illness (me).

Now again, shouldn't all marriages be under the 'hand of god ?' i mean, that's what most marriages are... most of them... and when it was - lets say - created it was in a religious act.
People use to get married by the religion LOTS of people go to the church to get married, i guess Muslims have their way... i guess any religions do...

Now my question is, how you can - do - a religious act without following the religion ?

____

Now i really want to stop this because homosexuals really got to much of my attention.

____

I am an Armenian Lebanese that lives in France and that is moving to the USA which is Christian but does not follow the religion because he believes its stupid (all religions).

Wow, you're a complete and utter DICK (note the all capitol letters).
I am gay.
Seperation of church and state. "Period!"

"IF the president/government allows gay marraige, Gay people will demand other rights as well"

HOLY SHIT! Somebody wanting RIGHTS!? WTF!? Next thing you know them damn faggot-asses will get the right to vote! HOW DARE THEM!?


Seriously now.. Why shouldn't I have the "right" to have a child? And since I'm not about to go have sex with a woman to do it why shouldn't I have the "right" to adopt a kid. You HONESTLY think that it is better for a kid to sit inside of a childrens home for years and years because there aren't enough people adopting than to get a family who actually WANTS a child and WANTS to care for one?

Come on, now. You're basically saying Gay (since you like to make Gay a noun) people are AUTOMATICALLY going to be -horrible- parents.

Do yourself a favor and go hang yourself.

EDIT:
How can you say you have "nothing against" gay people, yet you think that they should be given NO rights?

In case you forgot.. Black people used to have no rights. Women used to have no rights...

I changed my mind. Don't hang yourself. Pour gasoline on your body and light a match please.

So you want to start a "Gay" generation? Is that what you want? lol

Gay(lesbians, homesexuals, etc) people should not in any way be allowed to adopt children.

Jetteh you killed me here. (really funny)

I don't think gay shouldn't have no rights, i think they should, but not the same as any other people, not saying in a different way as they are so different people, just saying... a special UNION, not marriage. that's for a start.

Now for the baby question, i really don't think a kid growing up in a homosexual family is best for him. I mean, homosexuals are a minority... we know that... so imagine your kid being in this minority... this WORLD IS HORRIBLE and kids are ! don't you think the whole class will laugh at your kid when he / she is going to say i have 2 mommy or 2 daddy ? don't you think their parents are going to tell them... DONT PLAY WITH THIS KID... HIS PARENTS ARE GAY !

The world is fucked up... kids can't take stuff like that... change it if you can... but its impossible.

You act like just because I'm gay the child will be gay too....
Weird.
What if I adopt a girl?
Then she'll end up liking boys wont she? And she'll be straight.

OR BETTER YET! What if a straight person adopts a kid! The woman likes the guy, the guy likes the woman.. GOD! I don't remember EVER being that confused about who to like.

Being gay isn't something that is forced upon somebody, it isn't something that somebody really CHOOSES..

I didn't wake up and say "OH IM GAY!"
No..
I just never had feelings for women.
NEVER.

I've always had thoughts about boys, not girls. Ever since i was like 10. And I grew up in a chruch 3 times a week family with 5 STRAIGHT brothers.. So I don't get you.

Die.

EDIT:



Thanks. I try. And at least your nice about it.

How do you want your relations to work if you say DIE each time you post something. Everybody is going to hate you... knowing that everybody is a majority.. you are not going anywhere.

No one says he is going to be gay too... but he will live in a bad environment.. mainly because of the environment. But again its just how it is.

Ok my friend... It was your CHOICE to like men instead of women. Wasn't it? I mean, Nobody forced you to be gay! It's something you wanted to be.

I don't wanna hurt your feelings so I'll be nice to you. Just because you are GAY

Okay, you're right.
DJPazze I owe you an apology. I don't want you to die. I don't want anyone to die.

But MrTouz.. I could give two shits about my relations. How would you like it if people were telling you that since you are french you shouldn't be allowed to be married. You shouldn't be allowed to adopt kids. JUST because you are french.

And FYI you two.. I know a few people who have gay parents and, well.. They turned out just fine. They're also straight too.

So.. I really don't know what you guys are talking about.

Sure if my boyfriend and I were to adopt.. I would get a girl for the sake of the boy growing up. It would be a hard life. "Oh I bet your dad fucks you," or something if we got a boy.. Yes, that would be hard.

It just -really- pissed me off when DJPazze said "oh if you give them the right to marraige they'll start wanting other rights"... Wtf is that?

This country is BASED on the belief that EVERY MAN SHOULD BE CREATED EQUAL.. Correct?

Well... I'm a human. Every gay person is human. Every black person is human. Every chinese person is human. Mexicans are human. Transexuals are human...

Religion should NOT be a factor in deciding rights for ANYBODY. We have the right to practice ANY religion we want to. We also have the right to practice NO religion.

By saying GAY people shouldn't have rights is like saying that anybody who does NOT believe in god should NOT be allowed to be married or have children.

It's a fucked up idea. It's a fucked up country. It's a fucked up world.

DJPazze, you're fighting a fight that you won't win. Sure.. Gay marraige may not be legal this year. May not be legal next year. It may not be legal for 20 years... But I can -promise- you it will be legal one day. Why fight something that is going to happen anyways?

I consider myself a NICE human being. I don't go around judging people based on their beliefs. I don't judge people based on their looks. I don't judge people based on their sexuality. I don't murder people. I don't rape people. I don't steal. I try my hardest not to lie...

What makes you such a better person that you should get more rights than me?



No. It wasn't my CHOICE. Like I said. I never woke up one day and told myself "Hmm I think from this day forth I will like MEN!" Just like you never woke up and said "Hmm I think I'll like WOMEN!!!" No.. It just happened. When you begin puberty you start to experience feelings towards other people. Your feelings went towards women. Mine went towards men.

And as in choice, if you mean.. COULD I be straight? No.
I COULD have sex with a women. I -have- kissed women at parties. I have felt another girls tits... I could marry a women if i really wanted to... But would I enjoy any of that? No. Because my feelings are built towards men.

And please don't be nice to me because I'm "GAY"... I'm not nice to you because you're straight. Hell, I'm not nice to you at all.

Every time you post something you just piss me off.

How old are you? The majority of the people on these forums, I believe, are -young- and they don't have enough experience in life to realize what anything means yet.

I'm 20 years old. I've watched my 5 older brothers go through the OH I HATE GAYS stage and now I see them as VERY generous people who would care less if their best friend turned out gay (or their brother)...

Sigh. Maybe it's just where I live that nobody cares who's gay and who's not. Everybody loves everybody for their personality, not their sexuality.